User talk:Sumer Schmetterling

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Re: More on bolding and editing line ups

Hi, i just wanted you to know that, as you said, i already found the "instruments - person" stuff on the lineup when i first arrived on the wiki a couple years ago, so every change i've done on the lineup it's in the wrong mode, so, i have to change so many things, but, even if slowly, i think i can do it. I will try to find out when it first happened, but i think it's impossible. I will change the bold font to normal as well. And i wanted to tell you a thing: there are several shows that i think are orphaned performance, (like the acoustic piano show in berlin in 2003 or the irving plaza show in 1996) but i can't do nothing about it cause i'm a normal user and the tours page can be changed only by admins, etc..What do you think? (MAFF'L (talk) 18:19, 10 March 2014 (CET))

Reply to MAFF'L i.e. bolding, Lineup and tour requests

On Lineup: I see it all the way back to the early tours so instead of making it Name/function instead of Function/name perhaps we shouldn't change that. But I definitely do not care for it bolded. If you want to start at Against All Gods tour and work down, I'll work on early tours until then and just remove the bolding. (Which do you as a user thinks looks better?) Remember to make the descriptions fit each particular show. If unsure, please just put the basic: vocals, guitar drums, keyboard. (All like pages need to look as uniform as possible.)

The Berlin 2003 show: Is here: 2003/04/11_Berlin,_Germany. Even though the Marilyn_Manson_tours#Grotesk_Burlesk_Tour says it started on 2003/04/11 it does not have this page link on the tabled list. Indeed, on the Grotesk_Burlesk_Tour it shows a pic of the show and called it a 'special event' and again mentions the tour began on April 11th. I agree it should go under orphaned performance. I'll addd it to the tour list under orphaned performance and am changing the beginning date on the GOAG tour pages to the 15th. The page itself could use some fixing up.

The 1996 Irving Plaza show: Is here: 1996/09/05_New_York_City,_NY And is showing as part of the Dead_to_the_World_Theater_Tour even though Manson himself says on the page that it was done as a favor and he did not consider it the beginning of the tour. I could see where that should be moved to orphaned performances. I'm in no rush to make major changes like that right now, however. Let's do the lineup reformatting first. Sumer - Senior Editor (talk) 06:18, 11 March 2014 (CET)

ok, ok...i will fix all the tours before the EMDM era with the lineup written in this way: Marilyn Manson & the Spooky Kids' April 28, 1990 performance ("I'll work on early tours until then and just remove the bolding. (Which do you as a user thinks looks better?)" well, at first yes, but now that you showed me the original way to do it i think that the original manner is better)

thanks a lot for the advices! User:MAFF'L (talk) 16:00, 11 March 2014 (CET)

yes, i am definitively working on the tours...i've finished the Grotesk Burlesk one, go check it out ;) User:MAFF'L (talk) 13:21, 29 March 2014 (CET)

live performance date notation

hi, Sumer. i've noticed that the live performances 1989-1994/1995 articles are entitled in the way of Marilyn Manson's MONTH DD, YYYY performance starting from a certain period (can't recall). these titles are different from what we use for 1995/1996+ lives. i'm curious: do you consider that all title notation should be generalized? i personally prefer YYYY/MM/DD CITY, STATE or COUNTRY because this style is shorter and easier to read, and such titles are perfectly sortable within automatically generated lists like category pages. what do you think? thanks. (scarshock (talk) 11:31, 23 March 2014 (CET))

In the urls that ends up making the page titles, the first way was how they first started making the pages which later changed to the more European recognized format of year/month/day. To correct them at this point we'd have to move the pages to a new url and that would be a lot of moving, I don't think worth doing so, although if there was ever a big update that needed to pull that info that might make it worthy. I wish the url didn't auto make the page title. Page titles with YYYY/MM/DD CITY, STATE or COUNTRY then subject doesn't look very nice on the page itself. Let me put it to M1shael, though. Sumer - Senior Editor (talk) 17:53, 23 March 2014 (CET)

I've spoken to M1shael he agrees the format should be YYYY/MM/DD CITY, STATE or COUNTRY then subject. To make this change however not only would every page with the Month Day, Year format need to be moved but on the info box for all made pages the links would have to be corrected. (last tour/next tour area) Let me know asap if you're interested in continuing that because I was in the process of making a lot of new tour pages for the early tours. Sumer - Senior Editor (talk) 03:10, 26 March 2014 (CET)

hi, Sumer. thanks for letting me know. let's do that this way: the new articles will now follow the YYYY/MM/DD CITY, STATE or COUNTRY style. i'll move all old-titled pages (Marilyn Manson's ... performance) with the redirects incrementally during my free time (so it may last for some time). since the idea is mine, i'll take care for rework/maintenance myself, and i'll keep an eye on the migration current state/TODO using search query or any other better filter/query you could suggest. are you fine with that? (scarshock (talk) 09:21, 26 March 2014 (CET))

Sure. All links have to be changed on the tour tables, too. I think a methodological approach is needed. Change page first then the links on the table? Links on the main tour page tables need to be change, too. If the links on the tables are done first we'd lose the links to the page. I can also do this as I make new pages but for now am taking a break. Are you good at editing wiki websites? Like for the page, not just background but layout?

ah, don't worry for that, because i just missed to say that i'll fix all redirects, sure, using the "what links here" search feature to keep everything consistent and accurate. a year ago (if i'm right), i had similar activities during the removal of excessive redirects for articles having improper title capitalization. for example, simply removed redirect pages like "Apple Of Sodom" changing the according references to "Apple of Sodom" everywhere. concerning the wiki markup language: yep, that's not a problem for me. (scarshock (talk) 08:11, 27 March 2014 (CET))

 :) Thankfully, it's just the early tours. There might be a few random pages elsewhere. I believe the Interviews are mostly the old format, too. I see what you're saying about category pages and agree. I also recently said something about the way Categories are named, themselves. If we did Era - Spooky Kids, Era - Born Villain then on the category page all eras would be together. The way we have it now, Born Villain is under B and Spooky Kids are under S. But then think of the edits we'd have to make on all those pages. I do strongly feel all pages, lists, etc., should be uniform. It also isn't correct how some categories are all capped and some are not. i.e. Spooky Kids era, Born Villain Era. If I make new tour pages, I'll use the new format. Sumer - Senior Editor (talk) 17:14, 27 March 2014 (CET)

>> I do strongly feel all pages, lists, etc., should be uniform.

it's a very good statement, and i fully agree with you

concerning the category names like "Spooky Kids era" and "Born Villain Era": i'm not a native English-speaker and my grammar is not perfect, as you probably might notice, so i don't want to establish the wiki rules that may not be optional (by "optional" i mean a possible choice of "Manson's performance" VS "YYYY/MM/DD" we were discussing a bit earlier), but i guess that lower-cased "era" is better and doesn't clash with a possible occurance of "Era" in a real title. an example of possible clashing: The Golden Era of Grotesque Era category probably doesn't look as good as The Golden Era of Grotesque era does for me. additionally, Wikipedia uses the second, "not-everything-is-capitalized", style. i also was thinking of a special guideline page where all of these stuff might be described and discussed, but now i doubt that we need such a page because the style of most of the pages in a certain area is a good guideline. and yes, i'm starting to migrate the pages we were talking about these days. (scarshock (talk) 20:12, 27 March 2014 (CET))

It's The Golden Age of Grotesque but point taken. I would just like for Category listings to be uniform. Too many people are doing it their own way. Look at Tour Dates: [1] on this page. We have 'Tour Dates' & 'Tour dates' each with many entries. What is happening is people are adding categories and titling them however they see fit. I feel though like you said, the wiki way is not to cap everything, but when you make a category it becomes the title of the page for it. Either way, if we had a consistent way of doing it, people would see that and conform more often. But let's leave this one on the back burner while we address dates. I like to see one project done before another gets started.Sumer - Senior Editor (talk) 21:03, 27 March 2014 (CET)

oh come on, Sumer, it's The Golden Age of Grotesque, sure :) i simply couldn't find a good example to demonstrate "era/Era" clashing and intentionally substituted a similar word :P (scarshock (talk) 22:30, 27 March 2014 (CET))

lol

Scarschock, I think you missed my talk with MAFF'L be we agreed we were making all page now: Lineup: Person then vocals and/or instrument with none of it bolded. He is supposed to be working on this. I see you're changing that on the early tours. Keep it like on this page: http://www.mansonwiki.com/wiki/Marilyn_Manson_%26_the_Spooky_Kids%27_April_28,_1990_performance Sumer - Senior Editor (talk) 00:55, 29 March 2014 (CET)