Editing MediaWiki talk:Sidebar

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I'm curious as to why, on a Marilyn Manson Wiki, that you would remove a link to the Marilyn Manson bio and band pages? Also, where the hell did the advertisements section come from? [[User:‡-me-‡|‡-me-‡]] 14:56, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

:I agree, the whole deleting the Manson bio and band part was odd,? who did it in the first place [[User:DavidGlyn|Dave]]

::It would seem that Vixen did, though I'm seriously scratching my head as to why. As far as advertising goes, if it's to help cover the hosting cost, I've already offered to cover it and would rather not clutter the wiki with ads. :/ [[User:‡-me-‡|‡-me-‡]] 15:00, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
:::Yeah i agree on the not cluttering the wiki with ads, but i do think we should have a link to the Manson and band page back :) [[User:DavidGlyn|DavidGlyn]] 15:01, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

:::: I personally don't feel that Vixen should have the authority to make changes especially removing the content as mentioned above. This should have been discussed beforehand. Fair enough we have added to the side panel, but to take away content that has been there for quite sometime is another story. And as <me> mentioned we have offered to pay for the hosting, I would hate to see the wiki covered with ads. [[User:Godspeed|&#91;god&#93;speed]] 15:05, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::Yeah, Lol, i dont think hes going to like this conversation much . :) [[User:DavidGlyn|DavidGlyn]] 15:07, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

::::::Well the advertisement section that was there has magically disappeared, still scratching my head on the removal of Marilyn Manson and Band from the sidebar though... o_O [[User:‡-me-‡|‡-me-‡]] 15:10, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

:::::::Me too, i didnt really get why he deleted it, it seems quite odd as you clearly stated above it is a Marilyn Manson wiki [[User:DavidGlyn|DavidGlyn]] 15:14, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

::::::::I didn't add an advertising section. Having worked with Wikia websites, I hate that shit, so I don't know what you guys are talking about. As for the removed [[Marilyn Manson]] and [[Marilyn Manson (band)|The band]] links, are you guys joking? These are probably the two absolute most linked to pages on MansonWiki. Any article worth its salt has a link to either the musician or the band, and in most other cases, both. The front page also provides these links. Why do you guys seriously see the point in these links taking up unnecessary space in the sidebar? The truth is the only reason this "content that has been here for quite sometime" was ever inserted there to begin with was because at the beginning of MansonWiki I molded it as a ripoff of NinWiki, plain and simple. Now there are way more articles here than any of us know what to do with, and these links, now plastered throughout the over 2,000 articles here (meaning that unless you're reading one of the articles here that are devoid of any formality and links, you're on a page that cross-references both the man and band), have become an obsolete part of the sidebar hub that we use to escort people around the more interesting areas of the website, the areas that aren't linked to everywhere you turn. <span style="background:#000000">[[User:Vixen Windstorm|<span style="color:#DEB887;">'''Alden Weston'''</span>]] [[User talk:Vixen Windstorm|<span style="color:#7BA05B;">'''talk'''</span>]]</span> 21:24, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

:::::::::I understand what you're saying, yet for a new comer to the wiki, the first thing I would imagine a person to look for would be the bio and band pages. Also the redesign doesn't include the Main Page/header links. [[User:‡-me-‡|‡-me-‡]] 04:22, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

::::::::::So is it going to be back? The links to Manson's and the band's bio's...? I was kind of used to it, and I see where Vixen's coming from on that issue, but I also agree with <me>... =/ Just my opinion, I think we should put it back there because like <me> said, the first thing someone new to the MansonWiki would expect is a link to the bio's of Manson and the band. o_o Yeah, those are the two most linked things on the entire Wiki, but I think it belongs there. =o [[User:Raven the Ravenous|--Raven was here--]] 06:21, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

:::::::::I think that, for the sake of newcomers, the front page of the redesign should make it a priority to carry these two links, seeing as how everyone is so tenacious about being pointed to these articles. I don't see how everyone can so seriously dispute this change. Like I said, any properly written article here has links to one or both Marilyn Mansons. You shouldn't need to rely on the sidebar to get to either article, considering how much pipe linking is going on here. I suppose it can go back if this issue is never going to end, but if you're really well-versed with using MansonWiki, you'll never click either of those links from the sidebar. They're wasting space we could otherwise be giving to the more unique sectors of our website that aren't being pipe linked 10,000 times over. <span style="background:#000000">[[User:Vixen Windstorm|<span style="color:#DEB887;">'''Alden Weston'''</span>]] [[User talk:Vixen Windstorm|<span style="color:#7BA05B;">'''talk'''</span>]]</span> 15:44, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
::::::::I see the links are back =3 Awesome ^_^ [[User:Raven the Ravenous|--Raven was here--]] 11:10, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

I agree with Vixen on the capitalization in the sidebar. Also, I think forums is a better description than message board since they are in fact titled that and it's in the url too. It's more consistent this way. [[User:Litso|Litso]] 22:11, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

:Why do you keep de-capitalizing the "forums" in "MansonWiki Forums" though? MansonWiki Forums is a proper noun, so there's no harm in keeping that word capitalized. <span style="background:#000000">[[User:Vixen Windstorm|<span style="color:#DEB887;">'''Alden Weston'''</span>]] [[User talk:Vixen Windstorm|<span style="color:#7BA05B;">'''talk'''</span>]]</span> 00:28, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
Because I made a script that makes the phrase 'MansonWiki forums' in the sidebar bold which doens't work when it's not capitalized, and I don't feel like digging into the code right now :/ [[User:Litso|Litso]] 11:27, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

== Linking to members ==

I realize that [[Marilyn Manson]] himself is essentially the most significant member of the band, but how do you feel about removing the link to his article and replacing it with the list of all Marilyn Manson members? I'm not sure how I feel about it myself, but I think getting a link to that list in the sidebar is important and I don't want the sidebar to get cluttered with links to the same idea (asin, a link to a musician ''and'' a link to more musicians). So what I'm saying is the sidebar could read [[Marilyn Manson (band)|Marilyn Manson]], [[List of Marilyn Manson members|Band members]], Discography and so on. I can go either way on it, but I do feel strongly about getting a link to the members list in there, so deliberate away. <span style="background:#000000">[[User:Vixen Windstorm|<span style="color:#DEB887;">'''Alden Weston'''</span>]] [[User talk:Vixen Windstorm|<span style="color:#7BA05B;">'''talk'''</span>]]</span> 01:30, 17 May 2010 (UTC)


: I'm still uncertain about removing Manson's bio, as I think that is a really important article, though I definitely understand where you are coming from about the list which would link to band member's bio pages, Current & Former, which would allow users to navigate to all of those bio pages in one place. Can I try something out and see what you think of it? Actually. Let's go over to the dev.wiki and I'll show you. [[User:Godspeed|&#91;god&#93;speed]] 01:37, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

::Replied on dev. <span style="background:#000000">[[User:Vixen Windstorm|<span style="color:#DEB887;">'''Alden Weston'''</span>]] [[User talk:Vixen Windstorm|<span style="color:#7BA05B;">'''talk'''</span>]]</span> 01:56, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

:::Replied there too :)[[User:‡-me-‡|‡-me-‡]] 11:09, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
:::Please continue the conversation here so other people can read it and give their opinion? [[User:Litso|Litso]] 11:22, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

::::You can't tell me what to do, you're not my real mom! <span style="background:#000000">[[User:Vixen Windstorm|<span style="color:#DEB887;">'''Alden Weston'''</span>]] [[User talk:Vixen Windstorm|<span style="color:#7BA05B;">'''talk'''</span>]]</span> 15:37, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

== members ==

[[List of Marilyn Manson members]]
Okay I like this, however I think that the list should be in chronological order. Ie manson, twiggy, vrenna and gerold and then create a new section with past members, and start with Pogo down to Olivia Newton Bundy. You know? [[Special:Contributions/75.186.136.248|75.186.136.248]] 12:01, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

:Yeah, order it like everywhere else on MansonWiki. I just alphabetized everybody for glossary's sake, but it's not something I'm going to enforce. Reorder it as you wish. [[Special:Contributions/76.65.233.166|Vixen]] 02:06, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

::I like the idea of the nav bar linking to a member page, we can do away with the band link that way. However, I'm not liking the tables at the top, I think they should be moved further down if they're to be included at all.

Perhaps:

Current members

Previous members

Timeline table

Producers

That way the reader is introduced to current and prior members first and then the table. I can only speak of my own opinion when I first saw the page and it didn't seem very reader friendly.(Jen) -<me>- 11:06, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

:::Yeah, I like the idea of having some table representing when members were in an out of the band, but I'd prefer something like the one used on the Wikipedia articles for bands like Slipknot and Limp Bizkit (that colored bar graph, it's simple and equally effective). I agree with moving the tables down and having the lists appear as the article's first sections, because I think it's better to have prose before tables (normally I don't count lists as prose, but look at how much text is in these lists!). <span style="background:#000000">[[User:Vixen Windstorm|<span style="color:#DEB887;">'''Alden Weston'''</span>]] [[User talk:Vixen Windstorm|<span style="color:#7BA05B;">'''talk'''</span>]]</span> 15:37, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

::::I like the idea too, I think it'll help kind of organize that part of the Wiki. =) [[User:Raven the Ravenous|--Raven was here--]] 18:56, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

:::::So what's the verdict? Do we want to do this or? <span style="background:#000000">[[User:Vixen Windstorm|<span style="color:#DEB887;">'''Alden Weston'''</span>]] [[User talk:Vixen Windstorm|<span style="color:#7BA05B;">'''talk'''</span>]]</span> 02:40, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

:::::::I think the tables are annoying and take up too much space.[[User:Godspeed|&#91;god&#93;speed]] 03:42, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

::::::::I agree, we can just go by the prose list if everyone thinks that will suffice. <span style="background:#000000">[[User:Vixen Windstorm|<span style="color:#DEB887;">'''Alden Weston'''</span>]] [[User talk:Vixen Windstorm|<span style="color:#7BA05B;">'''talk'''</span>]]</span> 04:00, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
* Okay then, lets sort them based on current > former. We should aslo include Rudy Coby, Tony Silva, Camets, and all the other people who work alongside him. [[User:Godspeed|&#91;god&#93;speed]] 04:03, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

::Yes, I included producers since some have worked with the band on more than one occasion, and the same can definitely said about other artists such as Coby. <span style="background:#000000">[[User:Vixen Windstorm|<span style="color:#DEB887;">'''Alden Weston'''</span>]] [[User talk:Vixen Windstorm|<span style="color:#7BA05B;">'''talk'''</span>]]</span> 05:15, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

:Manson's bio was visited over 6000 times last month, making it the sixth most popular page. 2000 of those came from the main page. Let's not remove the link from the sidebar.
:Also, I see what you guys are doing here, but doesn't the Marilyn Manson (band) article link to all band members as well? Why remove a major article and replace it with a portal to band members if the band article actually list them all as well?
[[User:Litso|Litso]] 10:39, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

::I was actually hoping that the two could be merged in some way. Maybe take the few paragraphs above the TOC on the band page and move them to the member portal, then link to the band article for the bands history. Seeing as members seem to be coming and going more frequently now. In the past three years alone we've seen Skold, Holliday, Borland, and Twiggy come or go. Now with the hint that Naveen is going to be either in the band or contributing it makes sense to have the portal as it is now so that each member can be moved/listed individually and documented this way instead of "and then" for each member movement in an arm long article. This way the article regarding the history of the band can be more focused on band news rather than member movement. 
::Also (with the help of [g]S and Yarawaey) I've began to create categories for each member so that these can also be given a link from the member portal. Something like: "(''To find more MansonWiki articles regarding Chris Vrenna, please click [[:Category:Chris Vrenna|here]]'')"

==Opposition==
What dare I ask was the problem with the sidebar adjustments? <span style="background:#000000">[[User:Vixen Windstorm|<span style="color:#DEB887;">'''Alden Weston'''</span>]] [[User talk:Vixen Windstorm|<span style="color:#7BA05B;">'''talk'''</span>]]</span> 22:50, 19 September 2010 (UTC)